A modest proposal

[resonant]

You know what I want? I want one of the many, many multimillionaires who read my LJ to start a magazine for original (nonfannish) erotica. E-magazine, print magazine, quarterly anthology, whatever -- just so it's good stuff like our good stuff.

I mean, really. If you read erotica, you know that:

1. Most of the erotica that you pay for is crap. Especially when you consider how much great stuff there is for free.
2. Even the non-crappy, reasonably well-written published erotica has -- how shall I say this? It's just as riddled with cliches as slash is -- and their cliches are a lot more annoying, to me, than ours are.

And if you've tried to sell erotica, you know that:

1. Most erotica markets pay either nothing at all or an embarrassing pittance that's almost worse than working for free.
2. If you write a story in which the first half is set-up, increasing sexual tension, plot, conversations, etc., and the second half is about 50% more of the above and 50% sex -- well, the erotica publishers don't want it because there's so much in it that isn't sex, and the non-erotica publishers don't want it because it's too explicit, and the romance publishers will only take it if it's het with a conventional (not to say trite) romantic happy ending.

And, seriously, wouldn't you buy an erotica magazine or anthology if you knew that it was similar, in balance, depth, and quality, to the better slash stories? I surely would.

Especially if somehow we could convince them that not every volume of erotica has to have a naked woman on the cover, but that's a different rant.

Edited to add: I would read it; I would write for it -- and I would offer to edit it, copy-edit it, do Quark page layout, whatever it took, yes, yes I would. And I've done all of those things for a living, too, so that's good-quality labor I'm offering there!

Comments

[switchknife.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOD YES. Amen to everything you've said.

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

YES!

I would indeed write for such a thing (and am in a couple different places)

[wordwitch.livejournal.com]

Where, exactly? Title, please, also publisher, cost, and source. Also, writing under which name?

I buy good porn, but it must be good porn, and none of this disrespectful or highly artistic nonsense, please.

[maeglinyedi.livejournal.com]

Most of the erotica that you pay for is crap.

Yep. After I discovered slash I bought a book that had short, erotic, gay stories in it. I expected to find similar stories like the slash I'd read on the net. Boy, was I ever surprised when I read that book. The quality of the stories was just...well, let's say it was equal to the kind of fics most people in this fandom make fun of. It wasn't erotic at all, but it did give me a few good laughs.

So, in short, yep, I'm one of those people who'd really love to read such a magazine.

[fleurrochard]

You might want to take a look at Torquere Press - I think, they could be, what you mean.

[rushlight75.livejournal.com]

I was just going to suggest them myself. :)

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I'd gone totally blank on the name. I think of it as "the deal Pumpkin is with, the nice folks who will send me royalties."

The MAS zine is also good.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

And, seriously, wouldn't you buy an erotica magazine or anthology if you knew that it was similar, in balance, depth, and quality, to the better slash stories?

yes, yes. most certainly.

[norah.livejournal.com]

I would totally write for something like that. And give gift subscriptions, and everything.

[julia-fractal.livejournal.com]

A resounding yes to everything you just said! How I wish I was a multimillionaire capable of sponsoring this project.

IMHO, the reason so much published erotica is not that hot is the lack of characterization and context. It's not nearly as bad in written form as in porn movies, but it's a similar problem. Oh, and very often immediately after the sex ends, so does the story. Which kind of feels like having a door slammed in your face once the act is over. I used to read a fair amount of erotica before I discovered internet slash, and I've been consistently disappointed in the published stuff ever since.

Given how much rabid enthusiasm there is for fannish erotica, I'm sure there is a market for such a magazine. I'd definitely buy it!

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

I used to read a fair amount of erotica before I discovered internet slash, and I've been consistently disappointed in the published stuff ever since.


A few months ago I went through the large erotica section in Powell's and was disappointed in the offerings. The two athologies I bought were both unsatisfying as erotica and as a reading experience.

[juice817.livejournal.com]

Have you seen Ellora's Cave (http://www.ellorascave.com) or Loose-Id (http://www.loose-id.com)? EC is more - how do I say this - het-centric, I guess. And some of the stuff they publish isn't all that great, but they do have a few gems in there, and they are interested in explicit plot-driven stories. They pay (I think) 35% royalties.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Hm -- somehow I had it in my head that Ellora's Cave was all novels. (If I'm going to take the time and trouble to write a novel, I'd prefer that it be something my mother can read!) I didn't know they took stories, too. And Loose-Id is new to me, so thanks -- will check them both out.

[kat-denton.livejournal.com]

OMG YES! Somebody is missing out on a major mojo of a marketing idea here. Well written, plot driven erotica. In either print or video format, but I especially love print.

I used to be able to stand the Blue Moon books, but not after I've devoured scads of lovely fanslash that is not only hot, it's a good literate read.

I'd buy........

[ac1d6urn.livejournal.com]

Oh, Resonant, don't say that! As soon as someone figures out how to commercialize the original plot-driven slash stories, the majority of them will disappear from the web pretty quickly, and then I'll have nothing to read. (This is coming from a person who refused to buy half of her textbooks this semester. I am a scrooge at times.)

On the other hand, it sounds reasonable enough, too bad I'm not a multi-millionaire, or I'd jump at the chance.

This reminds me of the whole Xena fandom thing awhile back where a lot of f/f slash fiction writers had their AU novels published. Some of the work was pretty decent and I am glad I saved the original online drafts when I had the chance.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Can't I be against the commodification of desire and in favor of the opportunity to make some money off my work? There's got to be someplace I can buy a "Get Out Of Logical Consequences Free" card.

[skuf.livejournal.com]

When you first started to look for a way to publish Exog, I was thinking that if I won a ridiculous amount of money ever, I'd get it printed for you in its own little high-quality bookbinding. My fangirling of that story really knows no bounds :oD

(I'd still do it today, too - too bad I can't even afford to play the lottery, huh...)

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Ooh, a chapbook! I would love that. (I'm still sending that one out, though, so it may see print one of these days.)

[ngaio]

metaforgirl is thinking of setting up something like that (in fact when we were emailing a few days ago and she said she wanted author recs I mentioned you 'cause of Exog) so you could maybe head over to her LJ and see what she's up to?

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Huh -- I couldn't find anything on her LJ, unless it's in a f-locked post.

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

I would write, I would edit (and I do the latter professionally myself). But isn't this what Nerve magazine is for? Not saying the world couldn't use more good, smart erotica, just saying we wouldn't be the first to have this mission statement.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I admit I'm a cheapskate; I've never paid for a Nerve membership. But the free samples I've read on their website have not impressed me at all. They don't have the same flaws as conventional erotica, but they have different flaws which are equally annoying.

See, I should probably be more specific -- I don't just want good-quality (well-written) erotica -- I want slash-quality erotica, which means I want relationship-based erotica.

[giglet.livejournal.com]

I would read it; I would write for it -- and I would offer to edit it, copy-edit it, do Quark page layout, whatever it took, yes, yes I would.

Could you also keep track of subscription lists? Because really, you're in a prime position to be a small-press publisher, Res. You already know just about everything you need to know, and with erotica there's a chance that you could even make money from it.

It doesn't take a million dollars -- some of the best small magazines I know are put out by people getting paid less than $10/hr -- who are also paying rent in Boston and NYC. And hey, it'd be *yours*.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

This comment terrifies me!

I mean, there is some investment necessary. You'd have to pay for promotion, marketing research ... a webzine needs web design and server space, a paper zine needs printing and mailing ...

I'm really not in a position to take any financial risks whatsoever. I mean, not even on the level of committing to a cable modem for a year, never mind launching a publication.

And I know quite a lot about going from "an idea for a story" to "a finished story, nicely edited and laid out on a page," but to go from there to "a story in a publication which customers have paid for" I know nothing about whatsoever.

[saridout.livejournal.com]

man! that's a great idea :D

i'd do typesetting and graphics for a cut. count me in if it gets rolling!

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Yes! Yes, all of the above, yes yes.

Um, and yes.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

I have looked back at small-press erotica books that I owned and LOVED reading before discovering HP smut--now I go back to them and try to read them and they're S*IT. Absolute, utter crap.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I've had this problem with romance novels, which I used to enjoy very much. Damn it.

[starkittyn.livejournal.com]

*hops up and down with enthusiasm*

Um, yes please, with, sauce!

publication alternatives

[stormheller.livejournal.com]

As I understand it, ideally, you want a non-fannish publication that will pay you for your stories. People have suggested a couple of magazines, and I hope they work out for you.

FYI, at one time there was also an anthology called "Sigil". It was self-published through I-Universe and was exclusively original homoerotica, SciFi or fantasy related. It sells through Amazon and other online book retailers. You can read the entire thing online at http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/qsearchresults.asp and there are 3 volumes. (The 3rd is WIP.) IIRC, Sihaya Black originally put me in touch with them. I have written the editor and asked if she will be doing another volume and what, if any is the remuneration. We'll see what she says.

Alternatively, if no professional publication appears to address your needs, would people still be as enthused with a fannish endeavour? There's certainly a great deal of artistic and editorial talent expressing interest. If so, I might be willing to take on the more pedestrian functions that are my forte, such as print production, marketing, distribution and ***financing***.

Are people still interested if it's not quite as glossy? If it pays in trib copies vs. cash?

~ Stormy Stormheller of Duet Press (the people who brought you Duet Vol. 1 & 2)

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

For me personally, I was envisioning something mainstream -- something that would be of interest to readers who weren't fannish, and something whose stories could be picked up by those Year's-Best anthologies.

[halimede.livejournal.com]

A couple of things, first, is this (http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/G/Tor.htm) the call for submissions you could be looking for?

Second, I think one of the reasons people can't find the erotica they like in print is because they buy one book and give up. They forget how much bad!fic they had to dig through to get the good stuff, to find the stories & authors they like.

A related problem with print anthologies is that everyone's tastes are different, and hardcopy anthologies will always have a few stories in them that don't work for a given reader. Having said that, I bought the Black Lace Wicked Words 4 anthology, and while I was reading Hands Up by Maria Lyonesse I was honestly wondering if it was written by someone I know (I looked up the author biography, and I don't think it's anyone I know) because it was as good as slash for me. Scratch by Astrid Fox had a *really* strong beginning, and although the ending didn't *quite* work for me, I could forgive it on the overall strength of the fic (like I'd forgive a minor plot thing that didn't work for me if I like the characterisation in fanfic). There were a couple of others that I loved, and a couple that I wouldn't even have read to the end except I paid for the paper they're printed on and I might as well give it a shot. A few I really couldn't struggle through. Worth the price of the book for me, but YMMV.

Oh, and here's another paying market. Not *all* their stories are heavy on the porn in the first half of the story, fishnet cares at least as much about quality of writing and strong and/or unusual concepts, it seems.

[halimede.livejournal.com]

Whoops! Here's the actual link to fishnet magazine (http://www.fishnetmag.com/).

[bluerose16.livejournal.com]

I'm certainly not a millionaire (or anywhere close), but I'd be willing to do what I could to help with such an anthology/magazine/whatever. I'm not necessarily the best author, but I have a pretty good visual eye and I can do page layouts, etc. I certainly would love to contribute to such a project.

Now all we need is that millionaire...

[winstonmom.livejournal.com]

When you say investing $$$$$$ could you give me an idea of how much?

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Wow -- um -- I wish I knew. Poverty is only one of my problems, ignorance being another one.

If you know someone who has money to invest in a project like this, though, maybe we should talk via e-mail.