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[resonant]

Can someone recommend a good book about ghost stories and/or dark fantasy? Not a book of those stories, but a book about them -- their history, why we read them, what they do.

I've already read Stephen King's Danse Macabre, and it wasn't terribly helpful. What I'm after is something like Bruno Bettelheim's The Uses of Enchantment, but specifically focused on the scary and the horrific.

Or, barring that, what do you think those stories are for?

Comments

[ptyx.livejournal.com]

I don't know if that's what you want, but I liked "The fantastic; a structural approach to a literary genre", by Tzvetan Todorov.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with that one! I'll look for it.

[destina.livejournal.com]

There's an interesting thread at Nightshade's forum about the definitions and purposes of horror. Might not be quite what you're after, but it's still worth taking a look at.

http://www.nightshadebooks.com/discus/messages/53/3297.html?1098895637

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

That's interesting; I've bookmarked it for further study.

Somehow ghost stories feel different from horror to me, but I'm not sure why. There's certainly a big overlap.

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

Marina Warner's book, Fantastical Metamorphoses, isn't bad, but is mostly about (obviously) metamorphosis in myth and so forth. She has some interesting insights into Zombies and werewolves.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Interesting. My focus is more on ghosts than on changes, but I'll look for it anyway.

[halimede.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure oracne read such a book recently and talked about it on her journal. I can't for the life of me remember the title, however.

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

I just read Killing Monsters by Gerard Jones (I think that's the guy's name). It focuses more on violence, but there are some bits that deal with the scary. It's very readable. If my brain engages, I might come back and write more about what I think these stories are for:)

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

One of the things that Killing Monsters talks about is power. The reason kids like fantasy is that it gives them a feeling of power, especially when they have no control. Another thing Jones talks about is the ability to work through emotions through the characters.

My husband finds the first reason a good explanation of what he finds pleasurable in fiction now (mostly he reads sf/fantasy). Personally, I find the latter explanation pretty compelling.

I know that as a kid I read horror novels to sort of test my limits -- to find out what would really freak me out. Once I had the answer to that, I never needed to read horror again (except for Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake books which are not horror in the way Stephen King is).

I'm not sure if this explanation has been helpful. I am quite tired, but I did want to say a little bit more:)

And a question for you: are you interested in what these stories do for kids, adults, or both?

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

The "feeling of power" explanation is the one I remember from The Uses of Enchantment. I definitely see that at work in the way my five-year-old reacts to any fairy tale that's on the scary side.

I read an analysis of fairy tales that divided them into two groups: the stories in which an encounter with the supernatural results in the protagonists being better able to integrate themselves into the existing world (such as Little Red Riding Hood, where the girl learns that everyone was right when they told her not to walk through the dark woods alone) and the ones in which the encounter results in actually changing the existing world (such as Cinderella, where the poor and lowly girl marries a prince).

But it seems to me that ghost stories and the darkest of fairy stories (such as Bluebeard) are doing something different. For one thing, there's a cyclical nature to them -- ghosts keep coming back until something extraordinary happens, and obviously Bluebeard keeps killing wives until (in some versions) the neighbors kill him. To me this hints that they're addressing something that can't change, some dark cycle that we fear we can't escape from.

are you interested in what these stories do for kids, adults, or both?

Kids and adolescents, mainly, though of course if you hear and respond to a story as a kid, you'll carry that with you as an adult.

know that as a kid I read horror novels to sort of test my limits -- to find out what would really freak me out.

I think I do a bit of this now, though I have a violent reaction against anything that involves intentional infliction of pain, which means that I approach most horror with one eye shut. (Oddly, Stephen King is one of the few horror writers who are reliably "safe" for me -- the awful things that happen in his books don't tend to be inflicted intentionally by humans who are in their right minds.)

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

But it seems to me that ghost stories and the darkest of fairy stories (such as Bluebeard) are doing something different. For one thing, there's a cyclical nature to them

Have you read anything about the old ballads? I can't point you to anything specific, but it seems like there should be something about ballads that would pique your interest. I remember reading them in college and being horrified. I think that many of the old ballads do deal with these cycles of horror and they often also have a fantastical element to them.

I have a violent reaction against anything that involves intentional infliction of pain, which means that I approach most horror with one eye shut

I think I'm with you on that one. I love Laurell K Hamilton's Anita Blake books, but there is nothing intentional about the pain (usually). I don't know why I'm so attracted to her books. I can usually live without gore:)

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Have you read anything about the old ballads? I can't point you to anything specific, but it seems like there should be something about ballads that would pique your interest.

I love ballads, but I don't think I'm familiar with any that do this. Except -- hm. There's a bride-killer ballad, "False Sir John," in which the bride drowns the killer before he can drown her -- obviously that's got the same sort of repeating element as Bluebeard.

And there are all those things that happen to three sisters, one after another. He took the second one by the hand,/Turned her round and made her stand,/Turned her round and made her stand/On the bonny, bonny banks o' Fordie-o ...

Can you describe any of the ones you have in mind?

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

I wish I could remember the name of the book that I read for my English class 15 years ago.

I remember there being one poem about a child dying. I think that the cyclical element actually has to do with having read so many of the ballads at one time and seeing the same themes over and over. When I wrote that message I wasn't really thinking (can I blame it on pregnancy? I'm 13 1/2 weeks along....) I just remember reading over and over about babies dying and all this blood and gore. I seemed to have been the only person affected by all the violence in the poems. The teacher was terrible and has since died anyway, so I can't email him to discover the title:(

Seems like I've lead you down a dead-end. Sorry about the wild goose chase. I just excited for a moment there.

[rushthatspeaks.livejournal.com]

Noel Carroll wrote an okay book on the subject called The Philosophy of Horror. It wasn't great, but it addressed the specific things you seem to be wondering and had a good bibliography, which might be useful.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Ooh, sounds very useful.

May I ask the significance of the platypus philosophers?

the sociology of scary stories?

[watermelonpunch.livejournal.com]

I recommend www.snopes.com "Urban Legend Reference Pages"- last I remember, they have a LOT of commentaries on what makes urban legend "scary stories" so compelling. Like the sociology of it.
I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for... but that's what popped into my head when I read this post.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Interesting!

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[(Anonymous)]

I'd second the person who mentioned the Noel Carroll - not perfect, but it was useful in my honours dissertation (horror and gender). Patrick Harpur's The Philosopher's Secret Fire isn't bad - covers some of the ground the Hero With a Thousand Faces did but without the awful Freudian nonsense :-). Not ghosts as such but Christopher Frayling's Vampires is interesting, Bunson's Vampire the Encyclopedia mentions various myths from world cultures and Kim Newman's BFI Horror Companion has some very good entries with suggested further reading. Carol Clover's Men, Women and Chainsaws is primarily about movies, but may have some useful material, as would Barbara Creed's Monstrous Feminine.

Joe, Edinburgh

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Carroll turned out to be moderately useful. I'll take a look at the ones you mention, if I can find them. Thanks!