Spoil(er) me

[resonant]

Any Robin Hobb readers out there? Anybody want to tell me one good reason why I shouldn't assume she's doing the slashy thing on purpose?

I loved her novella in the Legends II compilation, so I went looking for the series. However, because our library is staffed by the Undead, Book 1 from the first trilogy is missing from the shelves, and no one knows what to do about this because the computer shows that it's there; and the library doesn't own Book 1 of the second trilogy, though they were nice enough to buy Books 2 and 3. So the best I could do was to grab Book 1 of the third trilogy, i.e. Fool's Errand.

I'm not completely sold on this book yet; there's an awful lot of musing, reminiscing, denying facts which are right before our eyes, and longing for the past. But the minute the Fool walked in (looking like Draco in a slash story as described through the eyes of a thoroughly besotted Harry) and began doing things like asking Fitz to call him "beloved," my interest level began to grow -- mainly because I don't, really, believe that we're headed into a canonically slashy place, but I cannot imagine how on earth she's going to explain the Fool's behavior in any other way, unless he's going to turn out to be a girl in Book 2.

So somebody who's read Book 2, come and tell me how I'm supposed to be interpreting this stuff! (And if there's any decent Fitz/Fool on the web, I'd love recs.)

Comments

[shrift.livejournal.com]

Oy. I'd have to re-read all of the novels thus far to really talk about this without sounding like an idiot, and ideally, you would have started with The Assassin's Apprentice. *g* 'Cause there's lots of history there.

History that I myself am forgetting. So I dearly hope somebody jumps in and corrects me if I'm wrong.

Them books are insanely thick. I think I have them all, too...

Anyway. In the first three, I don't remember the romantic element between Fitz and the Fool being there. The Fool was too... child-like in that incarnation, I think. Child-like and not mentally all there.

Although Fitz and Verity... yeah, there's a case for THAT. *g*

So somebody who's read Book 2, come and tell me how I'm supposed to be interpreting this stuff!

My take on it -- since I believe the Fool is only *impersonating* a girl on several occasions, although not everyone knows it's an impersonation -- is that the Fool is physically male (although fairly androgynous) and in love with Fitz. Deeply so, both friendly and romantic.

Fitz loves the Fool back, but *platonically*, he likes to insist. Platonically! I'm pretty sure the Fool makes an overture in the second book, which Fitz rebuffs. He's very uncomfortable with the situation, but I remember finishing the second book still having hope that there might be slash to come in the third. Although I also remember wanting to bonk Fitz over the head.

At the very least, they're *dear* to each other.

As for the hope... Fitz used to be the apprentice to the court spy and poisoner (Chade), so he used to be pretty good at sussing out secrets and relationships between people. But he's always been *hopeless* at seeing anything in relation to himself. And since Nighteyes died, Fitz really hasn't had anyone around but the Fool to smack him upside the head when he's being a dolt.

And I get the impression that he knows he's being a dolt. But that may be wishful thinking.

(And if there's any decent Fitz/Fool on the web, I'd love recs.)

God, if you find any, let me know! I've toyed with the idea of writing some myself, but I haven't got 'round to it yet.

[ukcalico.livejournal.com]

My darling sister amazon'd me two books from that trilogy while I was abroad; sadly, they turned out to be the first and third. <g> So I know no more than you, but shall concur that:

a) the pov pissed me off for a long time, but eventually I realised it was the *character* pissing me off, and not the author, and,

b) beloved! Yes! omg etc. It made my jaded eyes go wide.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

I've read all of the Fitz books (just never could get interested enough to read the Ship series) and yeah, the slashy vibe is there between Fitz/Fool but...Hobb takes so much care to make it clear that 1) Fitz is ever so str8, and 2) Fool is ever so beyond conventional notions of gender and sexual love (the latter is made especially clear in the last book) that it kind of put the cabosh on the whole UST thing as far as I was concerned. :-( Fitz/Verity though...mmmm.

[norah.livejournal.com]

six_duchies ... but it's a closed community, as Hobb is very anti-fanfic. Ask someone you know on the flist to vouch for you for membership.

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Oh, she's doing it on purpose. Sort of. It's a lot more understandable when the books are read in order (though you don't need to read the second series, per se, but there's some characters and things in the third series that aren't going to make much sense without the background. A lot of people seem to not be able to get interested in the second series, personally, I loved it.). Fool is as close to ungendered as you can get. The 'he' Fitz uses for the Fool is Fitz's conclusion. The Fool often tells him that gender doesn't matter (and the Fool spends the second series as a woman named Amber...So...). The other problem is that though Fitz loves Fool, it's definitely not romantic. Fitzy has a love on the side, Molly, who he pines for. It's a horribly complex relationship but that's the gist of it. (The best thing to do is just read the books. I know you should be able to get them via inter-library loan. At the very least, the Urbana Free Library has them, as that's where I got the first series from when they first were published. ^_^)

Hobb's pretty anti-fanfic so most people who have written fanfic are underground or hiding it behind friends-lock or closed communities (like six_duchies).

[icegemini.livejournal.com]

I've only read the first two Assassin's books, but Fitz/Verity and Fitz/Fool does it for me.

Just echoing though, Robin Hobb is very anti-fanfic (and I respect that to a certain extent), so look around for closed communities, et al.

[lasultrix.livejournal.com]

*ready to vouch*

[oneminutemovies.livejournal.com]

My take: Thanks to the Fitz character's ingrained prejudices and attitudes, the slash is all pretty much subtext; but on the other hand, it's about the most blatant subtext ever. I think the Farseer trilogy and the Tawny Man trilogy are well worth reading just because I love the Fool so much.

[justacat.livejournal.com]

I agree totally with this assessment. Very disappointing - and it interfered with my enjoyment of the books - how very much care she took to make these points. I mean, god forbid that Fitz actually be a bit conflicted about the whole thing, once he got over his initial reaction.

I loved this series up through Fools Errand, which I think is my favorite of the entire series. I'm not sure whether to say this, since you are only now reading them ... but I've got to admit that the appeal went way, way, way down starting with the second book of the third trilogy (Golden Fool? I can't remember the title), largely because of the Fitz/Fool interaction (or lack thereof). I was just ... bored, without that, and disappointed by w hat there was. And for the same reasons I was not a big fan (understatement ...) of the ending of Book 3. Usually I'm a big re-reader of books, but I wonder whether I'll ever read these again.

I'd love to know what others thought of the third trilogy - I have a feeling I might be in the minority with my negative opinion, at least outside the slash world. But I've always tended to focus more than most on the m/m interaction, whether or not it's sexual - taking that away dampened my enjoyment of the books. I wonder if other slashers share my feelings?

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

but I've got to admit that the appeal went way, way, way down starting with the second book of the third trilogy (Golden Fool? I can't remember the title), largely because of the Fitz/Fool interaction (or lack thereof). I was just ... bored, without that, and disappointed by w hat there was.

I was quite disappointed with "Fool's Fate" (which I was silly enough to buy in hardback. Grr). I think that I could have been interested if the story had been told from a dual POV (Fitz and Fool), but...though the plot was solid and the glimpse into the islander culture was welcome (not to mention the fact that I enjoyed seeing Prince Dutiful coming into his own as a ruler), there wasn't enough sizzle in the plot (sexual or otherwise) for Fitz to really keep me interested.

[justacat.livejournal.com]

I bought it in hardback too! Not only in hardback - I actually bought it from Amazon UK, since it was released earlier in the UK ...

What a waste. You nailed it when you said no sizzle, of any sort. I found myself bored, bored, bored - and did I mention I didn't like the ending? *g* She had such a very good thing going in Fool's Errand (that's the first one of the trilogy, right?), with the wonderful interaction, the tension and sparks and confusion and real caring, between Fitz and Fool - but she went nowhere with it, really. Such a disappointment (to me, at least).

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

That's helpful, though discouraging. As I mentioned, the novella was quite enjoyable; the book, on the other hand, really didn't seem to have a whole lot going for it at all until the Fool showed up, and I'm disappointed that all that romantic description of him with the firelight gilding his face and all (in Fitz POV) is not going to go anywhere.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

But I've always tended to focus more than most on the m/m interaction, whether or not it's sexual - taking that away dampened my enjoyment of the books.

I'm not always like that -- it depends on what else the book has going on to keep my attention. But really, so little happens in the first few chapters of Fool's Errand, and it comes to life so suddenly when the Fool shows up. So that put extra weight on that relationship, for me.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Oh, cool! Thanks!

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'll e-mail Switchknife first and see if she feels she knows me well enough without vouchage.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Well, I'll finish the book and see if he's enough to keep me interested!

[shrift.livejournal.com]

I think Robin Hobb's earlier novels are well worth reading, although her more recent work seems to suffer from (what appears to me, anyway) a lack of firm editing. Kind of like J.K. Rowling, actually.

I honestly don't know if she's going anywhere with the romantic descriptions -- if the subtext is deliberate and misleading, or if she's perhaps terribly fond of the Fool as a character. Then again, I've done plenty of literary criticism in my time, so I don't really want to go to an authorial intent place. I'm going to read the third book, regardless. I think that the relationship between Fitz and the Fool is hands-down the most compelling thing about The Tawny Man series, but I'm prepared to be disappointed and frustrated.

[galilei.livejournal.com]

You need to talk to wednesdayschild. She has a filter just for Robin Hobb, and particularly for examining Fitz/Fool. As a warning, though: the posts on the filter are rife with spoilers.

[c2002.livejournal.com]

You should read the Ships trilogy too as the Fool pops up there in another incarnation. I find with R. Hobb's work that I am completely engrossed in it while reading, but when I think back on it I wonder why - having said that, did buy Golden Fool in hardback.
Haven't read third installment of trilogy 2, but suspect that it will end with Fitz in non-Fool Het Heaven. Pity.
Its a shame that R. Hobb is anti-fanfic as there are so many great writers out there who could do some wonderful things with her characters.

Liveship Traders

[amalthia]

I also had a hard time just starting the Liveship Traders Trilogy, but I'm so happy I finally sat down and started reading the trilogy, if anything I think the Liveships Traders was her best trilogy, it was thrilling and there is some slashy subtext. I think the story itself is reason enough to read it, Robin Hobb in my opinion is writing the best fantasy at the moment. She has great characters, intricate plots, and her stories don't stagnate like some authors I could list.

honestly I didn't read the trilogy until I found out the Fool played a character in the Liveship Traders. A woman no less. and I was not dissapointed when I finally read the trilogy, in fact I was extremely happy I waited until she had finished the whole thing because I read them one book after the other.

I highly recommend starting from the beginning and work your way up. Skipping around lessens the impact of each novel.

Basically read the Liveship Traders when you get a chance. You won't regret it. Or if you do you can write and let me know and I'll keep in mind that some people may not like it.

robin hobb has written stories that stood my test of time. I read her first trilogy about 6-8 years ago, and I just finished rereading the first trilogy, two months ago. I loved Fitz's story just as much and in fact I did get something different out of it the second time reading because i'm older and I appreciated some aspects of the story more than I did when I was 16.

So please give the series a chance. Even the Liveship Traders, I loved her characters and I think you'll enjoy their stories too. :)