Snape makes the first move

[resonant]

There are a lot of HP stories where Harry gets up from the table at the Leaving Feast and blows off a chance of the party of the decade in order to go down to the dungeon, shout, "I'm not your student any more," and fling himself at Snape.

Sometimes Snape is expecting this, and sometimes he's as shocked as Warner Bros.' lawyers. Sometimes he accepts Harry's offer, and sometimes he nobly sends him away to get old enough to be interesting gain Useful Experience and Perspective so that he can Make An Informed Relationship Decision.

What I want to know is, why is it always Harry who makes the first move?

Because, really, can't you see it the other way around? After the Leaving Feast, Snape comes up to the Gryffindor common room and sends everybody scattering, and he talks for a while to Harry in private and then sweeps away, and the rest of the Gryfs come cautiously back in:

"What'd Snape want, Harry?"

"Probably wanted one last chance to assign him a detention."

"Er, Harry? I really think it's not terribly healthy to be casting Scouring Charms at your lips ..."

And then Harry goes off into the world to get old enough to be interesting gain Useful Experience and Perspective and Enough Distance To Become Intrigued.

But meanwhile, Snape's despairing of Harry's ever changing his mind, since Harry didn't say "No thank you" or "I'm flattered, but" or "It's not you, it's me" -- he said "Wha -- aaaaagh -- no, no, no, make it stop, make it stop --, god, the nightmares, where's my wand ..."

That's a story I would really like to read.

Comments

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

I think Harry is already old enough to be interesting (though not interesting to Snap, which is what I think you meant, but then I'm not sure age has much to do with that), but your story idea?

*cackles*

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

Not interesting to Snape, even. I really shouldn't be allowed to post when I'm sick.

[sparrohawk.livejournal.com]

Oh, what a perfectly LOVELY bunny.

[maggie-malfoy.livejournal.com]

I think that's the only Snape/Harry plot it wouldn't mind reading.

[maggie-malfoy.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind reading, even.

*facepalms*

Just throwing things out.

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

I particularly like the bit about Scouring charms. ^_-

I'm not certain why the fans often write Harry as making the first move though Diana Williams comes to mind as writing the opposite. (Whether I like them or think them believable or in-character is another story entirely.)

I think part of the reason, though, comes from the orientation of the writers. The majority of Snape/Harry fans are, first, Snape fans. And as Snape fans, Snape becomes the pseudo self-insert, who is wined and dined and taken home for a good long session of love making.

Then there's also the theory that Harry 'tops from bottom.' Or he's dominant enough to make the first move but not dominant enough to actually be a top. (Some day, somewhere, someone is going to write a Harry/Snape BDSM story with Harry as the dom and I shall rejoice. Of course, it'll likely be very fucked up and probably not be consensual, but oh well. We take what we can get, I suppose.)

Some of it may also be characterization issues. Ie, it's harder/easier (for Author A/Author B) to explain Harry/Snape's attraction and thus the person they can rationalize easily ends up making the first move?

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Huh. I never thought of that. I always assumed it was an age issue -- i.e. that people could handle the idea of a student pursuing a professor, but the idea of a professor pursuing a student creeped them out. (And the whole source of this story idea is that it would creep Harry out, as well -- at least until he went away and reflected that, hey, he and Snape were kid-and-adult for seven years, but they'll be adult-and-adult for a century or more and might as well get used to it.)

Some day, somewhere, someone is going to write a Harry/Snape BDSM story with Harry as the dom and I shall rejoice.

I would swear that I've read this. But I didn't like it, so I didn't save the URL.

Re: Just throwing things out.

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

There's also A Biddable Man (http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=988739"), but it's been a very long time since I've read it.

Re: Just throwing things out.

[switchknife.livejournal.com]

(Some day, somewhere, someone is going to write a Harry/Snape BDSM story with Harry as the dom and I shall rejoice. Of course, it'll likely be very fucked up and probably not be consensual, but oh well. We take what we can get, I suppose.)

I DID WRITE THIS! I DID! See here (http://aeristerra.com/switchknife/fiction/thecount.htm). Interestingly, most people said they were too unnerved by it, by my upsetting the usual power-balance. (Or imbalance, I should say.)

Darn it, I've spoiled the story for you just by pimping it, because most people who go into it are deliberately fooled into thinking that Snape's the aggressive one at the start--the twist is the key. Kindly Obliviate yourself before approaching the story.

[geoviki.livejournal.com]

"as shocked as Warner Bros.' lawyers"

Has to be one of the best lines I've read lately!

[versinae.livejournal.com]

I was going to say this, but someone beat me to it! Wah! :0

[everythingisaid.livejournal.com]

That's a story I would really like to read.

That's a story that I'd like to read as well!

There are so many Harry-pursuing-Snape stories, but I would love to read more Snape-pursuing-Harry stories. I think a lot of people have a problem with Snape being so much older and a former professor of Harry.

Also, using idiotparade's reasoning, maybe the reason that I would rather see Snape-as-the-pursuer stories is that I am much more of a Harry fan than a Snape fan. But I don't really think about why I like things. : )

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I think I tend to put the less-needy person in the position of pursuer.

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

Since you are nursing such an idea, why woudn't *you* write it? Everybody would like to read it (hope it's not too insolent of me).

As a passing association. Not so long ago Isis wrote a funny drabble, turning a cliche upside down (http://www.livejournal.com/users/isiscolo/111303.html#cutid1). Have a look.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Oh, I loved that drabble! I should have told her that myself. I've read so many stories where Harry's a young god and Snape just can't believe that this firm-bodied young athlete, who's so strong and young and handsome and young, could possibly want him. They make me barf.

I'm still playing around with the idea, but I had such difficulty with it that I decided to throw it out and see if someone else might have a less self-protective version of Snape in her head, because my version of Snape was really resisting taking any emotional risks whatsoever.

[celandineb.livejournal.com]

So, write it! Please! I'd like to read it too... and have sworn not to start writing HP fic, at least not this year, so I have no hutch room for that bunny.

Come to think of it, it really is pretty implausible that Harry would make the first move. Yep. This is a story that needs to be written.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe someone will write it. Maybe several someones will write it, and we can compare and contrast.

I don't really find it implausible that Harry would make the first move -- he's reckless, for one thing. Also, when you're seventeen, you have no idea how young seventeen is, whereas when you're thirtymumble,, you know all too well. (My best friend's son is seventeen. Cute, but my favorite boots are older than he is.)

[switchknife.livejournal.com]

THIS BUNNY IS MINE! MINE MINE MINE!

... Ahem.

If you don't want to write it, that is. If you do, that's brilliant, because you'll do a HELL of a lot better with it than I ever will... but if you don't, I'll be delighted to write it for you. Absolutely delighted.

*clutches bunny to chest*

*gives others the evil eye*

I have staked my claim. Tell me if you want to write it, Res, or I'll have it written before the end of the week! A belated New Year's gift for you, I guess! :D :D :D

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Cool! Go for it!

I tried to imagine actually writing it, but I'm afraid I foundered on the characterizations. Specifically, I could certainly get at a Snape who was attracted to Harry and waiting eagerly until the clock ticked over and Harry was fair game -- but I couldn't get at a Snape who was willing to risk humiliation by actually saying so.

In fact, now that I think of it, it may be that the reason people are more likely to write Harry taking the lead is that Harry seems a lot more willing to take emotional risks than Snape is. Snape doesn't appear to have very many intimate relationships at all (though I think the canon allows various interpretations of his relationships with McGonagall and Dumbledore), and it's hard to see him going out of his way to get one.

Not that I'm trying to discourage you! I'd love to see what you'd do with it. And even in the unlikely event that I did arrive at a Snape I could use, I'm sure the two stories would be different enough that the fandom would have room for both of them!

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Ick.

I'm not a Snape/Harry shipper in any way, so that might affect my judgement, but it's definitely the age/power thing for me. The thought of any of my teachers trying to pursue me on my graduation day... ick.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

It's funny -- Harry/Snape creeped me out wildly when I first started reading HP, but over time, familiarity has taken the ick out of it, for me.

A lot depends on the context of the story, for me. There are two years left between the end of OotP and the end of Harry's career at Hogwarts, and depending on how you imagine the story going, you can place Harry at a lot of points on the continuum between "schoolboy" and "young soldier," and you can place his relationship with Snape on a lot of points on the continuum between "teacher/student" and "comrades."

Of course, for some readers, the gap in age and power is the kink. It's not mine, though. I don't need them to be the same age, but I need them to be roughly equal in the power they hold over each other. But there are a lot of ways to arrive at that equality, and not all of them require you to wait until Harry leaves school.

Oooh, Res

[jelazakazone.livejournal.com]

I'd sure be happy if you wrote this one:) Of course, if switchknife wants to write it and you don't, I'd probably be perfectly happy to read *that* rendition. Even better, you could *both* write one. Mwuaa haa haa. Spread the love, or something like that.

[mzcalypso.livejournal.com]

Apologies for butting in... not my fandom, but the issue's interesting. I'm not into HP/anybody *or* Snape/anybody (sorry--any man with access to soap & water who can't bother to wash his hair is a slob.) (Aragorn, Boromir, & Faramir are exempt, since they did't have access... hop in the bathtub, darlin! ;-9 )

Harry making the first move, after graduation? It's the power/ethic of it, I think. A teacher who preys on students is a fuckhead (and it *is* predation even if the student lusts after the teacher, because *kids in lust are not thinking clearly.*) It's the same reason a doctor or therapist who puts the moves on a patient/client can have their license yanked. What is coerced love really worth? What damage does it do?

Relationships are a tricky balancing act at best. When one person's a lot older and the other isn't yet quite sure who s/he's referring to when s/he says "I am," it means the subordinate one may have to wait til middle age to actually grow up. Even if you're talking dominant/submissive, how real is surrender if the power structure is already built-in? (Or when any reversal just looks like a childish fantasy of 'getting even' with a nasty teacher?)

Kinks aside -- a Snape with integrity would not hit on kids. (Easy for me to say, of course, as I find kids cute but not all that interesting; my partner's my own age.)

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Well, as I said up there (http://www.livejournal.com/users/resonant8/44481.html?thread=489409#t489409), there are a lot of factors that make Harry and Snape's relationship more complicated than a simple student/teacher relationship. And the writer could certainly make things happen to push them in the direction of something more equal.

For instance, if Harry saves Snape's life a couple of times -- or if the Death Eaters get wise to Snape as a spy, and he has to hide, and Harry becomes his Secret Keeper and hence the person directly responsible for his safety -- or even if they just fight a couple of battles back to back -- in any of those cases, the power equalizes considerably.

It's also a personal conviction of mine that if you had a real culture in which people routinely lived to be 120, that culture would be a lot more accepting of age differences than ours is.

Try thinking of Harry as Emma and Snape as Mr. Knightley!

[maryavatar.livejournal.com]

I can just see Harry wandering around during the summer, all confused and vaguely turned on.

"Eew, Snape kissed me. Ew ew ew!"
"Hmmmm, I wonder if it's that revolting with other guys?"
*tries it out* "Not bad!"
*wet dream* "Ooh, oh... Snaaaap... ARGH!"
"I didn't dream about Snape blowing me. Nope."
"I bet he's had loads of practise. He's probably really good.
"Uh, hi Professor. I was just visiting..." *economy sized Snape-glomps*
"Woohoo!"

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Aw. Damn it. You beat us all and wrote the story first!

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Bunny! Bunny bunny! Someone adopt this bunny and give it a good hooooome!

[destina.livejournal.com]

Specifically, I could certainly get at a Snape who was attracted to Harry and waiting eagerly until the clock ticked over and Harry was fair game -- but I couldn't get at a Snape who was willing to risk humiliation by actually saying so.

I tinkered a little with writing your idea today, and I think you've articulated the exact issue I'm having. Well, that, and some other more complicated issues having to do with hatred and control. *g* But I hope someone with a better grasp than mine writes it, 'cause I'd like to read that story, too.

[miraminx.livejournal.com]

torch's "Pale Green", if memory serves,g has an appalled Harry scrubbing his mouth, although no Scouring Charm is harmed in the writing of the story used. It's here: http://strangeplaces.net/torch/palegreen.html

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

That is a fabulous story. One of my all-time favorites. Though a little too realistic to be completely satisfying to the "give 'em eternal happiness and great sex" part of my personality.

[villeinage.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't write this story, since I have a deep-seated humiliation squick.

But a few words on Snape's characterization that might make his role as the pursuer more plausible:

Control: I see Snape as someone who is frequently *out* of control, certainly of many of his feelings and of his larger life situation. His vindictivnesss and impotent raging at Harry, Sirius, etc. (there are places where he's practically frothing at the mouth)are one example.

Also, he's not particularly attuned to emotional nuances (his own or others). I can easily imagine a scene where an under-the-influence-Snape(pick your preferred influencing agent)makes a pass at Harry and is brutally rejected. Because a little influence is probably all it would take.

It's harder for me to imagine a scenario where Snape makes a well-thought-out pass at a very young Harry. (As an aside isolde's story, Pragmatic Magics, features Snape planning Hagrid's seduction, and she makes very good use of Snape's emotional cluelessness.)

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

These are good points. I agree that it's easier to imagine Snape doing such a thing on impulse, in anger, or under the influence than actually doing it calmly according to a plan -- and I agree that it would be kind of painful to read The Tale of Snape's Drunken Pass.

Now, one thing I can see (thinking about it further) is Snape making, not a sexual pass or a romantic proposal, but a practical proposition. "As a young man with no partner, you undoubtedly are troubled by certain urges; I will make fewer demands than a partner your own age,and also have the advantage of a greater level of experience; certain observations I have made during your Occlumency practices lead me to believe that we would be highly compatible; so I believe an arrangement would be mutually agreeable."

(Harry, meanwhile, has either gotten derailed at the third polysyllable, or is blushing so hard that there's no blood left to power his brain ...)

[bowdlerized.livejournal.com]

Urgh, I'm really late in replying, but I think a lot of it might be that Snape is almost obsessed with maintaining his dignity, so it's hard to imagine Snape making himself vulnerable in that way and giving Harry the upper hand. And in light of the stigma of a teacher pursuing a student, Snape would be risking even more by laying himself bare.

But I would love to read a well written fic with this scenario.

[(Anonymous)]

Try Merri-Todd Webster, aka mommybird, who wrote "Do what you want". Though that story has both parties adult and willing, I think Snape is the one who makes the first move.

TNT

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

And actually I sort of wrote this a long time ago (well, last February), but forgot about it, because it's not one of my favorite stories. All Things But Love (http://isis.arithmancy.net/vday.htm), Snape/Harry, PG13, written for the veela-inc Valentine's Day challenge. Actually, I think the remix Veuki did (http://barrendelights.slashcity.net/isis1.htm) is better. But, you know, not a really exciting story.