resonant: Ray Kowalski (Due South) (Frogs again)
[personal profile] resonant
So I had this brilliant idea to have a gift-making party for the kidlet's friends -- have them make Christmas tree ornaments and decorate bags to put them in. Plus putting frosting on gingerbread men.

Only the kidlet has at least one classmate who's of a different religion (Muslim) and doesn't celebrate Christmas.

So now I'm at a loss. I really don't want to invite every girl in the class but one*, but I also don't want to invite her and then only do activities that might make her feel uncomfortable or left out. And if I change the theme so that it's not so exclusive, then all my ideas for activities go right out the window.

Help?

* e.t.a I realize this sentence makes me look bad; I certainly never seriously considered this as a solution to the problem!

Also: wonder why I don't find it culturally insensitive to invite all the girls and none of the boys? I just figure this will prevent the famous Phoebe from spending the entire party in creepy and property-damaging third-grade seduction maneuvers.
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(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petronelle.livejournal.com
Frosting gingerbread cookies doesn't sound necessarily Christmas, as long as you've got more interesting options for colors than red and green.

I can't speak to the prevalence of ornaments in Muslim homes, but again, it doesn't seem as though a glass ball with pretty colors on it is necessarily themed. We had them hanging in various places all year round in my agnostic household. If you've only got Santa or Jesus shaped ornaments, that's a different sort of issue.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:46 pm (UTC)
libitina: Wei Yingluo from Story of Yanxi Palace in full fancy costume holding a gaiwan and sipping tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] libitina
What about making gifts that are not ornaments? Maybe chocolate chip cookies or dolls that look like their parents (which they could add a loop to if they wanted to have it be an ornament, but don't have to) or something. Origami animals would be a cool thing that could be any sort of gift *or* an ornament.

And then you could have a variety of colors from which to make the bags, instead of just red, green, and white.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:48 pm (UTC)
libitina: Wei Yingluo from Story of Yanxi Palace in full fancy costume holding a gaiwan and sipping tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] libitina
like their parents
or parental-type figures that they'd want to give a gift to...

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:51 pm (UTC)
aliciajd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aliciajd
This will only work if the friend has an English speaking parent...

If so, you could call the parent, explain what you want to do and that you really would like to include their child and find out their family's comfort level with such an activity.

Gingerbread men, snowmen, sleighs, icicles and snowflakes have no Christian connotations. If they are african-american, you could add a Kwanzaa decoration or three to the mix.

If they are American or have been here for a while you may be able to pull this off smoothly. If they are very conservative, newly here and you lack a common language, I have no ideas.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] whatifisaidno.livejournal.com
You could make it a "holiday party" or a "winter party" and use nondenominational symbols.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] boniblithe.livejournal.com
You could make it a Holiday party, and include different options - could even be a fun learning experience for the kids.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] somewhatdeluded.livejournal.com
Can I ask real quick, are you certain the Muslim kid doesn't celebrate Christmas? Most of my Muslim friends growing up did, but they were, for the most part, not from super conservative families, so I don't know how common that is.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com
I agree that gingerbread men do not have to be exclusive. Just have a wide range of things to decorate them with-- colored frosting, but also little candies and sprinkles and colored sugar, maybe shredded coconut and food coloring to dye it with-- and let them go to town.

Ornaments are trickier-- there's a line between 'pretty thing that could be hung on a tree' and 'Christmas tree ornament,' but it's a very fine and fractally circuitous line.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catmoran.livejournal.com
Seconding this.

Also, Christmas tree ornaments don't need to be hung from trees. They can be hung from a window latch, or from a magnet on the fridge.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rustler.livejournal.com
ITA about the gingerbread men. As for the ornaments, what if they made/decorated snowflakes? People without Christmas trees could hang them in a window.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] millefiori.livejournal.com
I agree with aliciajd that talking to the parent(s) and finding out how comfortable they feel might be a good idea. And rather than changing the party, maybe make a special point of inviting her to learn a little bit about your family's religion/traditions. (And maybe she could decorate her ornament with something meaningful to her that isn't Christmassy?) Who knows, it may work out with the kidlet being invited to share in a Muslim celebration of some sort down the road, which would be cool and horizon-broadening.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:07 pm (UTC)
florahart: (Default)
From: [personal profile] florahart
http://www.daniellesplace.com/HTML/winter_crafts.html

http://www.apples4theteacher.com/holidays/winter/kids-crafts/index.html (those are kits, but that doesn't mean you can't get ideas)

http://familycrafts.about.com/od/wintercrafts/ (some seriously lame, but then, like, paper lanterns that could be ornaments, but also are "Chinese New Year" crafts or a couple of cute snowman ones etc)

and so on. I googled kids winter activities crafts.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com
I agree with this.

More thoughts when I'm not late to meet people for dinner.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:12 pm (UTC)
ext_76751: (Default)
From: [identity profile] rickey-a.livejournal.com
being Jewish I totally come across this all the time
i agree w/everyone the gingerbread men aren't necc xmasy
as for the ornaments, maybe just have an extra craft or two available for her to choose like beads for a necklace or a pencil holder etc. but she may surprise you and choose to make an ornament since she probably has Christian friends maybe she'll want to make a present for one of her friends.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/
I have a muslim girlfriend and she has always wanted to be more a part of Christmas and the whole holiday all of us celebrated. I remember in college her begging us to not send her a special card; if it was important to us to celebrate our friends on this holiday, she wanted to be celebrated in exactly the same way. So we totally do. The friend who wrote 'happy holidays' instead of 'merry Christmas' on her card one year got mocked mercilessly. Ah, the college years.

So my suggestion would be this: have options. Have cookies of other shapes to decorate however she wants. If they're making Christmas tree ornaments, have them also making cut-out snowflakes to decorate windows, let the little girl make an ornament if she wants to, let her draw anything she likes, from Christmas trees to snowmen to Arabic or whatever on her bag, but include her. You needn't strip the party of all religious overtones to invite her; you can talk to her parents to make sure she knows she's welcome or to see if there's anything in particular that makes her feel excluded.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bibliokat.livejournal.com
I actually spoke to a parent about this, asking how she felt about holiday activities for her daughter who is Muslim. She said it wasn't a big deal and her daughter definitely knows about Christmas, so I agree with first speaking to the parents. They'll probably appreciate it!

Plus there are always "winter" activities like making snowflakes and snowmen. I also agree with the idea that ornaments aren't necessarily for Christmas trees. Go for it! Have fun! And please post about your activities, I need ideas;)

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laurelwood.livejournal.com
Whenever I've been in charge of arts-n-crafts for a group of kids with different religious affiliations, I've always had good luck sticking with gingerbread men, gingerbread houses, and snowflakes, without anyone feeling left out or offended. It's nice that the "Can't Catch Me, I'm the Gingerbread Man" story as well as "Hansel and Gretel" deal with gingerbread in a totally non-Christmassy setting, just to make those images even more secular, if needed. I don't know what kind of ornaments you're planning to make, but it seems like a lot of ornaments I see nowadays could serve just as well as little figurines or knicknacks as they could as something to hang on the tree.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lcsbanana.livejournal.com
Well, an early-December pretty-things-on-a-string party is gonna be Christmas tree ornaments no matter what you do. So...I mean, the girl is probably used to it, and I always used to love Christmassy stuff because it's pretty and never had any major angst that I can recall? But there's no way to de-Christmas that. The cookies, now, everyone loves cookies. *g* Just have lots of decorating options. Also bags for little presents are fun--again with plenty of non-Christmassy craft materials--since everyone gives gifts to someone *g* Just--you know. The Christmas tree is kind of a....thing, for the rest of us. And pretending that it's not a Thing is sometimes even more of a Thing.

Sorry to be so negative! It really probably isn't that big a deal; I second other people's suggestion to talk to her parents if you can--not in a whole big LET'S SHARE CULTURAL TRADITIONS way, just asking if she'd be uncomfortable at a Christmas party. Because probably she's used to it and won't be, and probably other kids will appreciate the opportunity to decorate their cookies pink and yellow instead of red and green for the tenth time in the last few weeks.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kassrachel.livejournal.com
Props to you for caring. (No, seriously, I mean that.) I'm with the others who've commented that cookies are pretty nondenominational (unless she's diabetic, odds are good she likes to eat cookies. *g*) Conferring w/ her folks could be a good idea, if you're comfortable doing it. Bear in mind that Jesus is revered by Muslims as a prophet, so celebrating his birth isn't likely to feel like anathema (at least, I hope not.)

On the whole, though, speaking as someone who was once a little Jewish kid, I always loved doing Christmassy stuff with my non-Jewish friends. Decorating their trees, making ornaments, frosting cookies, whatever -- that stuff was fun and I liked being included. I never felt like anybody was proselytizing to me or anything. *g*

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malnpudl.livejournal.com
I was also going to suggest calling the parents, which would also let you ask about dietary restrictions.

Sounds like a fun party.

(no subject)

Date: 11/15/07 11:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] font.livejournal.com
Another thing, if you are feeling adventurous, is that you could ask the parents if they had any ideas for a craft that their child enjoys that she could teach the rest of the group, too. I remember when I was a kindergartener, we had the option of making Christmas trees or Hanukkah stars one craft day, and my parents have hung my Star of David on the Christmas tree every year since.

(no subject)

Date: 11/16/07 12:12 am (UTC)
ext_2233: Writing MamaDeb (Default)
From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com
Definitely call the parents first.

Not only might there simply be cultural things *but* there are also dietary restrictions (Halal has different strictnesses than kashrut, but like kashrut, there are also different levels of observance) *and* many (although certainly not all) Muslims take the injunction against graven images very seriously, so a gingerbread man *might* be a problem in and of itself. (That last can be solved very simply by providing geometric shapes as well as vaguely-human-if-you-squint shapes.)

And the parents will be happy to be consulted even if they have no problems with any of this.

(no subject)

Date: 11/16/07 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cjk1701.livejournal.com
Is talking to the girl's parent an option? Phrasing it in the most positive way possible: that you want to invite the girl but only if she won't find the activities uncomfortable. Quite a lot of parents, in my experience (Jewish and Christian holidays and people colliding in unexpected ways) will happily smooth the way for things to happen if you talk to them about it advance, and most children enjoy any excuse to Do Fun Stuff. Of course, if her family is very heavily religious it may be a problem - but don't forget that Jesus is one of the Moslem prophets. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 11/16/07 01:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tonicollins.livejournal.com
Hm, one girl out of the whole class and the comment you make is: And if I change the theme so that it's not so exclusive.... Exclusive? One? Frosting gingerbread men does not scream "I'm forcing my religion on you"; Hell, the way Christmas is portrayed in this country doesn't scream that either.

Kids like cookies and getting presents. If everyone's included in that, they'll be happy.

(no subject)

Date: 11/16/07 01:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amanuensis1.livejournal.com
It isn't your responsibility to make a party everyone will like or that will offend no one. But there IS a responsibility not to snub people just because you're worried it may not be their type of party. Let the invitees decide that! Invite everyone, including this kid, and let the invitees decide whether to come. If parents or invitees have concerns about what will be done or what will be eaten, etc., they tend to pre-empt by calling and asking if it's all right if the child brings his/her own food, or does not participate in one particular activity etc. I see that all the time and the kids still have a good time and are glad they were included!

It sounds like your activities are quite secular to begin with, but even if you wanted to have a "Celebrate Christ" party, I'd say, have the party you want to have and invite everyone.

Though, yes, it's very nice of you to want to be inclusive with your party theme.
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