Linguistics

[resonant]

I'm compiling an American-to-British phrasebook (because reasons Sherlock). You can find decent dictionaries online (nappy, lorry, etc., etc.) but I'm not so much finding speech patterns -- word choices, syntax, where an American says 'on' and a Brit says 'in,' that kind of thing.

Oddly enough, most of what I've got here (that didn't come from Arctic Monkeys songs) came to my attention because I'd be reading a story in a fandom with an American canon, and I'd hit a phrase that made me go, "This author must be British." (The drawback of this is that some of it might be Australian or something.)

Anybody want to offer input? Here's what I've got (American on the left, British on the right).

Brits use a lot of 'got,' but I can't quite formulate a rule.

to see if you had my number -----> to see if you'd got my number

(also Americans say 'gotten')

Brits don't like to let helping verbs hang out alone.

"You'd eat a horse." "I have." ---> "You'd eat a horse." "I have done."

"That joke gets old." "It must." ---> "That joke gets old." "It must do."

The two dialects handle prepositions differently.

"in the hospital" ---> "in hospital"

"lives on Baker Street" ---> "lives in Baker Street"

Different vocabulary.

"we went to college together" ---> "we went to uni together"

"toss it" or "throw it away" ---> "bin it"

There are a number of things that Brits treat as plural that Americans treat as singular.

"the band wasn't very good" ---> "the band weren't very good"

"I'm no good at math" ---> "I'm rubbish at maths"

"the jury wasn't paying attention" ---> "the jury weren't paying attention"

Comments

[wychwood]

I agree it sounds kind of weird when I try and analyse it, but that's definitely the form of the construction that I would use! That specific phrase is a bit informal, obviously - it doesn't mean anything medical, it's an accusation of (colloquial) insanity or foolishness. "And then he went swimming while it was snowing! That boy needs his head examining."

[wychwood]

Even a lot of Regency romance gets it wrong, in my limited experience of it, actually - Heyer is reliably right, but I've read a bunch of published novellas, etc (mostly in those four-author anthologies with JD Robb stories in) which were terrible on many, many aspects of Regency mores, etc.

Stacy is a perfectly reasonable Regency name... for a man!

they told me it made them flinch when Americans would try to use British slang, because we have no feel for what's offensive and what isn't -- I mean, you can't reason that out, with slang; you just have to know.

Yes, exactly. You need to know the subtle gradations of what is and isn't appropriate in specific contexts! And, for fic-writing purposes, it's often not the sort of thing it's easy to codify; a lot easier to Brit-pick afterwards, and say, well, I just can't see Sherlock ever saying "bollocks".

I'm an expert North-American-to-British translator at this point, between various close friends at university and fandom since!

(incidentally, if you're looking for a Brit-picker beta I'm happy to oblige, though I don't know this version of Sherlock at all well)

[louiselux]

Ooh yes. Just chipping in to say that I'm British and I can't stand it. It sounds so ungrammatical to me!

[louiselux]

Sorry if that has been mentioned before and I've just missed it, but one word that to me is a giveaway is 'quit'.

As far as I can tell (as a Brit) Americans will say 'quit it' and Brits will say 'stop it'. 'Quit' as a command is not used, it's always 'stop'. However (there always is a however, right) British people might well say 'I've quit my job' or 'I've quit smoking'.

[dafna]

This is very very true. It's impossible to catch everything yourself.

[exceptinsects]

Supposed to/meant to. As in, "what's that guy dressed up as?" US: "He's supposed to be Marilyn Monroe." UK: "He's meant to be Marilyn Monroe."

[surexit]

I'm a mid-twenties Londoner and I'll fairly naturally say 'gotten' as the past participle instead of 'got', which is due to exposure to American media and also hypercorrection, so that's something to bear in mind. My mum will pick me up on it, so it definitely sounds strange to at least one member of the older generation, but it's really not a hard-and-fast rule.

Here's the British Council explaining have got. For teenagers, but still. :D The rule is pretty straightforward: anything that you possess, either abstract or concrete, and some appointments and things like that, can use 'have got'. It's almost always contracted, definitely not used in formal written language, and pretty irritating to try to remove from your speech. *was supposed to teach American English one time*

Maths isn't plural. (E.g., 'maths is my favourite subject'.)

Also to note, 'British' is not a particularly useful descriptor of the language. I know you;re just going for broad ideas, hence the usage of American which is also a very wide category, buuuuuut Scottish/Welsh/Irish English are such different beasts from English English in some respect, and there's a bit of a nasty history of erasure of those forms of English from discussions of British English, that it might be a good idea to specify that you're looking for English English?

Aaaand there's loads of other stuff I'm sure, but I'm going out for dinner just now. I will see if I can think of anything else helpful!

[greedy_dancer]

I was just going to mention the "I've not" vs "I haven't" thing, so, seconded!

[greedy_dancer]

Not actually a native English speaker at all, but I've been taught "snogging" is the equivalent of "frenching" or what they called "pashing" in Australia = kissing with tongues!

[jamjar]

I'm SE London linguistically, and it's definitely in a town, on a street for me.

[jamjar]

Also, getting off with someone (as in "I got off with Tim last night." is more in the nature of making out, snogging, maybe heavy petting, then actual orgasms.

[jamjar]

There's also a tendency to add an s on things when shortening them in informal English. Becky is Bex, Amy is Ames, Otto is Ots, See you later is Laters*, etc. It's not hard and fast, but, for example, "Sherls" would be as likely as "Sherl" as a short form of Sherlock. (If he wouldn't, you know, throw an utter strop at anyone daring to shorten his name).

I think this is one of those things that started as an SE England thing, but has spread up north due to TV).

*Well, "La'ers", I suppose, since I've never heard it with the T pronounced, only ever a glottal stop.

[jetsilver]

Huh. That might be regionally different for Australia - I would say I live on a street. But my grandparents were British, so I think I've grown up with a fairly strong leaning toward British grammar.

[eyebrowofdoom]

Aha, so what we have worked out is that some Australians and some British people say "in a street" but we have no idea who or why. :D

[wintercreek]

With [something] on/with [something] on it
UK: "A shirt with buttons on."
US: "A shirt with buttons on it."

Speak/talk
UK: "Speak with you soon"
US: "Talk to you later"
I am not confident that the "speak with"/"talk to" divide is that concrete, as one can easily "speak to" and "talk with." But certainly USians would say "It was nice to talk with you" and Brits would say something like "It was nice to speak to you." [Er, someone please clarify this. I am USian and am basing this off what I've read, so my understanding is imperfect.]

And two things I see pop up in fic (usually in fic set in the US but written by British authors, which is jarring):
"Lounge," which I think is BrEnglish for USian "living room," unless it's meant to correspond to the less formal "family room."
"On a night," which I think is BrEnglish for USian "for the night." "When I go out on a night" vs "When I go out for the night." [Again, someone please feel free to clarify.]

[resonant]

This reminds me of my whole speech explaining to Northerners how 'y'all' is different from 'all y'all.'

[resonant]

Shit. Pretty sure I've screwed that up at least once.

Hey, is "nightstand" an Americanism? As in, that little table beside the bed?

What about what a woman carries with her wallet in it? Purse? Pocketbook?

[resonant]

As someone who put graduation in the second sentence of a Harry Potter story once, I will not argue with you on this point in the least!

[resonant]

'Quit' for 'stop' sounds not just American but specifically Southern to me, but I can't say that with any authority.

[resonant]

One thing I'm loving about this conversation is people's examples!

[resonant]

I did have a vague understanding of Britain as encompassing more than just England, but I see I'm tending to misuse it -- partly because it gets confusing distinguishing 'English' the people from 'English' the language, partly because when I worked with the guys from Preston I got into the habit of referring to all my co-workers collectively as 'the Brits.' (Except for the manager they hired shortly before I left, whose name I can't even remember because in our house we always referred to him as 'the loud American.')

[resonant]

The picture of Sherlock's face when someone calls him Sherls is priceless.

Wonder how Mycroft would get shortened? If a guy named Mycroft had gone to my American high school, he almost certainly would have been renamed Mike on day 1.

[arduinna]

Oh, sure - the equivalent really is the equally colloquial "needs his head examined", for the same sense, nothing remotely medical about it. I'm fascinated by the construction, and very happy to have learned it!

[arduinna]

Language, man. So wacky, so cool!

[arduinna]

Would Americans say 'a three-egg omelette'?

This American would! And I'd cook it in an eight-inch pan. I think it falls under the measurement rule, somehow. Well, the thing that in my head is a measurement rule, like this from Merriam-Webster:

—plural foot used between a number and a noun —plural feet or foot used between a number and an adjective <6 feet tall>

It seems to apply fairly consistently for measurements, so...