resonant: Ray Kowalski (Due South) (Default)
[personal profile] resonant
You know how, when beginning writers want to do something out of the ordinary, people always say "You have to know the rules to break them"?

I've determined that, while this is not without a grain of truth, it's actually the wrong metaphor. What they should be saying is: "Don't take the back roads unless you know where you're going."

Imagine that you're out driving, and you look around the car, and you can see nothing in any direction but fields of soybeans and, way off in the distance, a creepy old graveyard with the fence falling down.

Well, if you've lived in this town all your life, and you're headed out for a little lake in the woods that nobody else knows about but you and your wacky great-aunts, then you've got nothing to worry about, right? But if, on the other hand, you just left your hotel and hopped in your rental car to check out that mall you thought you saw on the way in -- well, that landscape is probably a sign that you've made a wrong turn.

Likewise, if you're writing a story, and you suddenly discover that you've switched POV in midsentence, the question is not, "Is this a case where Virginia Woolf knew this rule well enough to break it, but I don't, somehow?" The question is, "Do I know exactly where this road goes? And am I sure I want to go there?"

If you don't know exactly where the road goes, sometimes you still want to see what's at the end of it. And then when you get there, you want to know where you are and how to get home again. And the next time you come here, you want to take the direct route without turning around at the Sunoco station and crossing the train tracks three times.

That's what beta readers are for.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 11:57 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 12:05 pm (UTC)
ext_2233: Writing MamaDeb (Default)
From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com
You know, I'm straight and monogamous and all that,but...

Marry me?

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 12:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mzcalypso.livejournal.com
Great metaphor!

Because if a writer wants to go that way, hey -- fine! But persuading a reader to go along over the railroad tracks, past the city dump and the swamp and all... some of them might be resistant, and that's what rewrite is all about.

Besides, WWVWD (What Would Virginia Woolf Do?) is too long for a bumpersnicker.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
WWVWD
I love this!!! *makes home-made bumper sticker*

*embroiders onto jumper*

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aethereal-girl.livejournal.com
As far as I can tell, if you are writing a strory and you suddenly discover you've switched POV in midsentence, and you know enough to stop and ask yourself, "Is this something I really want to do, bearing in mind that it may confuse my readers and/or jolt them out of the story?" then you know the rule well enough to break it. It's not some sort of mystical gnosis of the rules that this guideline is meant to address, it's a fairly simple question of knowing

a) See that? What you just did there? That's called switching POV in midsentence.
b) It's not generally recommended, as it may confuse your readers and/or jolt them out of the story.

Once you know that, you are free to go ahead and do it anyway, if, in your judgement, it'll work better that way. Of course, there's always the possibility that you (for hypothetical values of you) have poor judgement. But that's a different problem.

I suppose what you're doing in your analysis is adding a third consideration, namely having some idea of what you hope to accomplish, beyond breaking the rules because you can.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 12:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com
*nods* There's that, certainly. There's also the issue of "will anyone want to come with me?" 'Cause the thing for me is that Virginia Woolf can usually make me come along down the backroads with her. The journey feels short because it's full of witty observations, I have lots of pillows to cushion the shocks of the road, and when I get there, it was always worth the trip.

With a lot of new writers, that ain't necessarily so. Some of these things are "rules" because they're things which are harder (though not impossible) to make the reader like/put up with/care about. It may be precisely where the writer wants to go, but they may not yet have the skills necessary to bring me along for the ride.

(no subject)

Date: 10/14/04 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] resonant8.livejournal.com
[laughing] Yes, I suppose the other question to ask is, "And is this place worth going to?"

Because I'm sure there are some writers out there who would say, "You're totally confused and can't tell who's talking or what's happening? Great! Total confusion is exactly the result I was going for!"

Interesting post...

Date: 10/31/04 01:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] auctasinistra.livejournal.com
...says the passerby.

*nods* There's that, certainly. There's also the issue of "will anyone want to come with me?"

Yeah. This is the only question, really. If you're putting your fic out there for folks to read (if you write solely for yourself, the concept of communication is irrelevant), whatever you've done, whatever rules you've followed or broken, whatever you think you're doing, if readers can't, or don't want to, come with you, you've failed as a communicator.

Re: Interesting post...

Date: 10/31/04 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stakebait.livejournal.com
That brings up the interesting question of target audience, too. I don't think there's anything wrong with writing something that only a few people will get or like, if that's the thing you really want to say. I mean, look at Finnegan's Wake. It's damned near incomprehensible, but I wouldn't say Joyce failed. But that does involve accepting, as a writer, that you're not going to reach that broader audience that more accessible prose would.

Re: Interesting post...

Date: 11/1/04 01:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] auctasinistra.livejournal.com
I don't think there's anything wrong with writing something that only a few people will get or like, if that's the thing you really want to say.

Absolutely. And sometimes the thing you want to say, you kind of want to say for the sake of saying it, without any expectation of people hearing or understanding, and that's fine too. But I think in this instance we're mostly talking about folks putting their stories out there in the hope that most readers will "get it." :)

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 01:19 pm (UTC)
ext_1843: (Default)
From: [identity profile] cereta.livejournal.com
I like it! I think I'll steal it.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 01:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] atropos-lee.livejournal.com
great - it's actually inspiring, because it assumes that any newcomer could hang around long enough to get to know the shortcuts, but still enjoy getting where they are going in the mean time.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 01:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] imkalena.livejournal.com
You know how, when beginning writers want to do something out of the ordinary, people always say "You have to know the rules to break them"?

Thanks for offering something a bit more useful, since there are those of us who would like to write in a readable fashion, but don't know the rules -- and, moreover, don't care enough to actually look them up. :)

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
Love the metaphor.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobelia321.livejournal.com
I love this! I think it's not just a re-writing of the 'rules' point but that you're actually saying something different (pace some others' comments above). I think the road metaphor is beautifully apt and also helpful for the process of writing. Because it's not about universal rules being applied or not but about this particular story, and thinking of the story as going along a road helps you think through the story. *smooches you into twelve pieces*

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 06:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amanuensis1.livejournal.com
What a splendid metaphor. I shall use it all the time!

(Am reminded of the bit in Watership Down where the narrator says (paraphrasing), "Humans often say, 'It never rains but it pours.' This is not very accurate, as it frequently rains without pouring. Rabbits' version of the saying is, 'One cloud feels lonely.'"

(no subject)

Date: 10/14/04 12:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] resonant8.livejournal.com
Note to self: Read Watership Down again, since it's been a while since eighth grade.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 06:07 pm (UTC)
auroramama: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auroramama
Excellent. This should be mandatory reading. For people trying to teach writing, too.

(no subject)

Date: 10/13/04 08:10 pm (UTC)
celli: a woman and a man holding hands, captioned "i treasure" (Default)
From: [personal profile] celli
That is so cool. I love it!

(no subject)

Date: 10/14/04 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] commodorified.livejournal.com
YES.

I mean, I POV switch like a mad thing. For erotica, where SO MUCH of the 'action' is what the character sees and feels and their internal responses, I find it works really well and makes a better story. But I sort of fret about it, and try to find ways to make it work better every time.

(no subject)

Date: 10/21/04 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] susancalvin.livejournal.com
Ooh, thank you for saying this! I just read a switching-POV story that I had seen recommended, and I had to stop in the middle, it was so bad. I've seen it done well, where the purpose is clear and you can pick up the pattern and understand what the point is but... this just wasn't it.

But then, I don't write, so it's terribly easy for me to critique other people's efforts. Bad me.

(no subject)

Date: 11/1/04 11:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] resonant8.livejournal.com
The slash world actually imposes more stringent rules about POV-switching than pro fiction does, and when I read pro novels, sometimes I find the shifts kind of jarring, and then I have to ask myself: Is this actually bad, or is it just not what I'm used to?

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resonant: Ray Kowalski (Due South) (Default)
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