Corsets

[resonant]

I went to my first Romance Writers of America meeting last night. The program was given by a professor of costume design (and an expert in historical clothing), who brought in a colleague dressed in 19th-century underwear and proceeded to dress her up in a typical outfit for an upper-class Englishwoman of the time.

The skirt weighed thirty pounds. It was like holding one of those lead aprons they use when they x-ray your teeth.

As a concession to the health of the model, the corset gave her a 27-inch waist, rather than the more historically accurate measurement of 13 to 16 inches.

Which leads me to the Cool Fact of the Day: Apparently, in those days, the experts believed that if you laced a woman tightly enough into a corset, she would be incapable of feeling sexual desire. (They considered this a good thing.)

Hence the term "straitlaced."

("Strait," of course, means "tight," and now none of you will ever spell the word "straightlaced" again, right?)

They might not have been entirely wrong about that, actually. If a woman, even quite a thin one, was laced down to a 13-inch waist, then anything that made her breathe fast would quickly cause unconsciousness.

Corsets, in one form or another, were common right into the twentieth century, guys, and came back again in the 1950s. We had a narrow escape.

Comments

[timian.livejournal.com]

the more historically accurate measurement of 13 to 16 inches

Oh my god. How many years did that take off of women's lives? Yeesh.

[raggedrose.livejournal.com]

Uh, I thought you might be interested in this:

During the 19th century, the use of the corset was driven by society, where social status required the presentation and maintenance of a proper and fashionable figure, which could only be achieved by wearing tight corsets. This did not always mean an 18" waist, as many had not so small 22" to 25" corseted waists. Rather, corsets had to be sufficiently tight in proportion to the rest of the figure, to indicate that the wearer took her appearance serious. The average corseted waist was 22" to 26", although in general, the younger women were able to achieve the smaller waists (less than 20"). The standard range for off-the-shelf corsets was usually 18" to 30" for most common styles, and with narrower high fashion styles usually ranging from 18" to 24". Smaller corsets (16" to 20") remained the domain of the custom corset maker or corsetiere, simply because the tighter more precise fit required consideration of the physical differences that normally exists between women's bodies.

Which came from here. (http://www.geocities.com/ther_over/19thcent.htm)

I do this period, and find my period clothing comfortable, and wearable. True, I've dropped my corset, but that's mainly because since I've lost weight, it doesn't fit me any more. It's too big. *g* Saying that 13-16 inches was common in the 19th century is like saying that the body measurements of waif models reflect the current norm.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Saying that 13-16 inches was common in the 19th century is like saying that the body measurements of waif models reflect the current norm

Actually the word she used wasn't "common," it was "fashionable." Which would make it exactly analogous to waif models.

[beledibabe.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Horrible, horrible, horrible. But I'm glad you made an RWA meeting. They're a kick-ass group, and really support unpubbed writers.

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

Was 13 inches really common? I know that Scarlett O'Hara was supposed to be a marvel with her 16-inch waist -- far more slender than most girls, even in their teenage years, could manage.

Then again, I know some women later in the century would actually have ribs removed so they could get their waists even thinner; that might be where the 13 inches could come in.

(And yes, I judge all history by Scarlett O'Hara.) ;)

[halimede.livejournal.com]

Then again, I know some women later in the century would actually have ribs removed so they could get their waists even thinner

Very, very dubious historical factlet that. As far as I know this is the historical equivalent of an urban myth: the operation would have been *extremely* dangerous, and the lower ('floating') ribs bend inward quite easily anyway, under corseted pressure.

The real evil of corsets is that your stomach muscles atrophy, which means that once you've been wearing them from girlhood on, you're pretty much stuck with it, like those women in Africa who stretch their neck with metal rings. Well, that and 'snoerlever' (laced-up liver), which gives the organ a not-so-nice hour-glass shape of it's own...

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I've heard the ribs-removed story, and the other night was the first time it occurred to me to think about the state of surgery at that time, which I'm sure was appalling. It's hard to imagine many women could have survived having their ribs removed.

As for the atrophy of the stomach muscles, the costume professor said that contributed to so many women dying in childbirth: they didn't have the muscles to push.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

I judge all history by Scarlett O'Hara doesn't everyone??? LOL i constantly invoke GWTW in class when i'm trying to explain the antebellum myth. and then i'm incredibly disappointed when 2/3 of my kids have never seen it...

and now i will never misspell straitlaced ever again!!! thank you. (seriously...great taching tool!)

13 inches...

[(Anonymous)]

I read that in the Catherine de Medecis required all her court ladies to have 13 inch waists. There was a woman who had a 13 inch waist in the Guinness book of World Records in the 1980s sometime. This could be achieved, I think by wearing corsets from an early age. (sort of like footbinding?)The woman in the guiness book was mentioned as having parts in period films and such.

[twistedchick]

Corsets also were fitted individually, not bought off the shelf. I have worn a borrowed corset (for an event) and it was painful not because of the lacing but because the boning cut into the top of my hips.

The reason you see smaller-sized corsets and clothing at antique shops and vintage clothing stores is that people outgrew them. Look at the photos. Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony wore corsets; they were also not small. Trust the photos, not the advertising. Look at Civil War-era photos; average women were often small or thin -- sometimes because of lack of food -- but not that small.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

A few months ago, I tried on a corset. The dealer, a friend of mine, chose colors I loved and laced it on over the black top and skirt I was wearing, so that I remained properly covered.

She laced me in and in and in. And it was amazing. This was the first time *ever* that I had a waist at all - and yes, I could breathe, but I sat very formally indeed. And after I adjusted my bosum - well, if I'd been wearing something low-cut, I'd have had cleavage for the first time ever, too. It was visible even under the black t-shirt.

But that wasn't the main thing, so far as I was concerned. The main thing was that I looked neat. Tidy. It smoothed out all my bumps and bulges and the loose cloth and even made my old black knit skirt look elegant. I made one graceful curve from my shoulders to my hips. It wasn't, so far as I could tell, a sexy look on me, but it was. Amazing.

No, I didn't buy it. To buy something for $250 that I'd only wear at conventions, it would have to make my husband's eyes bug out. He thought I looked - not like myself. I agreed, but for him it was something bad.

But that 30 minute test drive was something I'm glad I did.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

This woman didn't need any help in the bumps-and-bulges department, but I have to admit that the corset did wonders for her posture.

[unmisha.livejournal.com]

a colleague dressed in 19th-century underwear and proceeded to dress her up in a typical outfit for an upper-class Englishwoman of the time.

The skirt weighed thirty pounds. It was like holding one of those lead aprons they use when they x-ray your teeth.

Sounds like the latter half of the 19th century - the Georgian/Regency period (1790's to 1830ish) was characterized by a scandalous lack of clothing. The women wore corsets, but the dresses were very light, usually muslin or some other light cotton, and for a couple of years, the girls on the edge of fashion would wet down their dresses so they'd cling provocatively.

Victoria and the Victorian backlash to the Regency excesses changed all that, but I'd be careful of extending a period's costuming over the entire century.

Thanks for the tip on straitlaced - I hadn't noticed the spelling difference, and the mnemonic will help.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

This was post-Civil War. She gave an actual date, but it involved numbers, so I forgot it instantly.

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

Romance writers!!!

I need to know more!!

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

You didn't know I was writing romances?

Or you want to know more about <a href='http://www.rwanational.com/">Romance Writers of America?</a>

[lobelia321.livejournal.com]

I want to know more about your own writing of it!

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Oh -- well, I wrote a romance novel called "Restoration," which is kind of dumb, but, hey, finished novel. I queried Silhouette and they rejected it, which may be because my query letter and synopsis were lame, or may be because it was unfinished, or may be something else altogether.

I've got two more in progress.

[kat-denton.livejournal.com]

I can remember my grandmother, who was born in 1883, wearing a corset. Her corsettier was an ex-patriot French woman who had married an American and come to the US after WWI. Madame Fredriks had a tiny, tiny waist. I remember how 'big' I felt when I could hug her all the way around her waist. She was also about 4 foot 6 or so, petite is the operative word, I was taller and broader than her at 10!

And hugging those ladies (either one of them) was like hugging an Iron Maiden - steel corset boning.

Gram had survived one of the earliest attempts at a C-section in the area - and both mother and child survived! But the scarring on her abdomen was horrific and she needed the back support badly. So even after corsets began to fail in popularity during WWII, she wore them.

I can remember her at the end of her life (1965ish) bemoaning the fact that girls no longer wore "proper" underthings. Glad I escaped it though.

[wickedcherub.livejournal.com]

But they're so pretty!

Yeah, and evil and everything...

[sherrold.livejournal.com]

but for the big breasted, they *really* support. If you're willing to give up some ability to move in your waist/ribs, you get back the ability to move upper ribs and shoulders, because they're not stuck supporting your (ahem) jugs anymore.

I don't do period anymore, but I do miss my old corset sometimes, and I'm only a DD.

Sandy