Poll: Slow down; you move too fast.

[resonant]

First a random comment. Starbucks Chantico? Basically a nice big hot cup of Hershey's syrup. Though if you poured it into a cup of coffee, it would probably be pretty good.

Now the actual question.

Something I've noticed in a lot of slash is that the path from first kiss to naked about forty-five minutes, tops. They're pals and partners when the doorbell rings, and then before the pizza's cold they're doing things that involve latex.

This doesn't offend me. Sometimes it's really, really hot. And often it makes more sense from a narrative point of view, because once the two of them have done the really tough thing -- recognized that they're sexually attracted, and actually gathered up the guts to act on it -- it's really difficult to pull back and make them go slow without messing up the nice clean arc of the story.

What I'm curious about, though, is whether this is a purely narrative convention, or whether that's really the way it is in real life.

Because, see, I've never dated as an adult. The spouse and I met at eighteen, and immediately figured out that we were probably the only two people in the world who were this particular brand of odd, and that therefore if we stuck together we'd be making four people's lives happier. So I really have no sense of the proper sequence and duration of the stages of getting-sexually-involved, except the way teenagers do it.

So tell me what you think.

[Poll #501150]

Comments

[lynnmonster.livejournal.com]

Okay, but I'm not sure how much my answers should count, because I sure slept with a lot more people than I dated...

[the-star-fish.livejournal.com]

Ahahahaha

I was having the same issues, so I didn't answer at all.

:)

Different For Men?

[the-moonmoth.livejournal.com]

The thing is about slash, is that it's two men, which makes a difference I think. In my experience, most men are much more eager to jump to the sex part than to stay at the kissing/petting stage for too long. Women tend to prefer to process things a little, and not feel like they're rushing into something. At least, in my experience. Would be interested to hear others' views...

Re: Different For Men?

[indywind]

In my admittedly limited and peculiar experience, SO YES!

[forcryinoutloud.livejournal.com]

I think it depends--if you're just picking up some random person without actually intending to do the whole relationship thing it can be the jump right to the naked thing, but personally if you're actually looking for some type of real relationship with said person jumping to the naked part can sometimes lead to the let's stop before we even start thing :P

There's a difference between just being sexually attracted to someone and actually being attracted to them sexually AND as a person, not just a body.

In fic--at least from my experience with it, you're right--doing the whole let's talk and date before we jump in bed thing can sort of ruin the fun of a fic for the simple reason that most--not all--but most fic readers want 'teh sex' *G*

I totally applaude those people that can actually do the slow thing in a fic and make it work. I would kill to be able to write like that :P

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

I would absolutely love to read more of that. But it's obviously difficult.

Either people postpone the sex with lots of unrelated interruptions, which to me is just annoying, or they have one character saying, "I'm just not comfortable going further than this," at which point I begin saying, "Oh, and who took away my bold adventurer and replaced him with a fourteen-year-old girl?"

Where you have a really long-term friendship -- say, Fraser and Ray at the very end of the series -- I can see them just sort of moving into an unspoken agreement that they're going to enjoy the anticipation for a little longer ... maybe. Unless Ray got impatient.

[swtalmnd]

I have trouble answering this, because it's so individual based on the relationship, so my answers are based on the ideas of:
1) Neither of the two are in a relationship at the time, and
2) The two of them are already acquainted in some way, preferably friends

Also, keep in mind that guys tend to give it up faster than girls, stereotypically -- they were taught that getting laid = prowess, whereas we girls got that whole "who'll buy the cow" speech (which always made me wonder, if the guys are supposed to be getting sex but the girls aren't supposed to be putting out, how exactly does that add up?).

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

You're a slasher (presumably) and you have to ask this?

[vulgarweed.livejournal.com]

I clicked almost all the ticky boxes, because I've been in almost all those situations in various relationships over the years.


My current partner and I knew each other for years as fellow music geeks and jamming buddies, but one strange night we went from "hey, can I get a ride home?" as usual to first kiss to naked and acrobatic just like that, just like it happens in PWPs. (Almost five years later, we mark our "anniversary" from that night because it was how we first knew definitely that we weren't just friends anymore)

My major relationship before that had a much longer (or shorter? We didn't know each as long) "courtship" period. There was a lot more thinking going on, because the issues were more complicated and he's just more of a slow, deliberating kind of guy.

So much is dependent on the personalities involved and the circumstances and whether the pheromones hit at just the right moment, IMO. But no, I don't find spontaneous hawt sexx between buddies necessarily unbelievable, because I've done it many times myself.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

I'd like more of the inbetween stuff in fics. Been thinking about just that a lot and realise it's just too time-consuming, tedious hard work, and while you might do it in a novel you wouldn't do it in fanfic. Sadly.

In RL I notice that today there simply is no reason to wait, but also that those sex-on-the-first-nighters rarely lead to a relationship.

[apetslife.livejournal.com]

It totally depends on how much alcohol has been imbibed...*grin*

No, I'm kidding. Sort of. But I think it's hugely variable, depending on what both people are hoping to get out of the encounter. Not to mention, have these two people known each other for a long time? Sometimes that can either speed things up or slow them down, depending. Really...I guess, there's no hard-and-fast answer. Whatever works for the story has probably happened often enough in real life that it's well within the realm of the possible.

[minotaurs.livejournal.com]

Just from a guy on guy perspective - this also depends on the pre-existing relationship. If it's a guy I just picked up in a bar, the first kiss is usually the tester moment. If it goes well, we're gonna be naked that night. If it's a guy I met elsewhere, there's some flirting and maneuvering and maybe a date, but if we get as far as kissing we usually end up in bed. If it's somebody I already know... then it's totally different. And there may or may not be talking about it.

[auroramama]

Hi! If you are Minotaur who's spoken at some slash cons, I still use your description (as I remember it, anyway; I may have translated it to something entirely other) of a brief sexual encounter as a physical conversation with a stranger on a subject of mutual interest when trying to understand all sorts of things, sexual and non.

[flambeau.livejournal.com]

That drop-down menu needed an all of the above option. They're all perfectly reasonable, depending on circumstance and intent. :)

[vickita.livejournal.com]

Well, as someone who's still single at 43, who's dated (and dated and dated) and had casual sex and friendly sex and talking-about-the-M-word sex and what-the-hell sex, I'm going to go waaaaay out here on this thin little limb and say...

...it depends.

Heh.

But hardly ever does it take less than an hour to go from the first kiss to first sex. If there's sexual attraction between two human beings who aren't complete strangers about to have completely anonymous sex, there's probably been some kisses and some nice touching at some point *prior* to the occasion of having sex for the first time. You've probably been working up to it for at least a *little* while. In my experience. And grownups who live apart and have jobs and stuff... it's probably going to be more than 12 hours between separate occasions of seeing each other. So that's why I said, "More than two days."

[alyse]

I have an issue with 'virgin' to anal penetration the first time out in fic, because I do find that unbelievable unless it's handled really, really well, and it often isn't.

In terms of fanfic, however, if we're writing slash it's usually because we see something on screen - chemistry, flirting, what have you. So in a well written piece of slash, you're not coming out of nothing but building on what you've already seen.

Plus - guys. Experienced guys usually, who have relationships behind them. So it's not such a stretch that when they decide to act on the attraction that they act on it in a sweaty and get naked kind of a way.

They've had a large part of the foreplay with the flirting beforehand.

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think there are excellent practical reasons to wait before jumping into anal, chief among them being that slash first-times very often happen not only without time and lube but even without privacy and furniture to sit/lie on.

[meri-oddities.livejournal.com]

Interesting question. And of course, I got married way to young to really know, though not as young as you. I do think that the time span seems to have gotten shorter from first kiss to naked as my friends have gotten older.

When you're young (High School, college), it seems to take a while to get to the naked part. By a while I mean, many dates and hanging out together, getting to know the person type stuff, sort of a progression through the steps as it were.

I know that for single folks of my acquaintance now, it seems like it takes a shorter amount of time, as if getting to know each other well isn't that important, but it still takes more than 45 minutes.

[fierydspsition.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure there is a standard, or well at least for me, there isn't. I have a hard time getting involved with someone I don't trust completely. My last boyfriend and I kissed and lightly petted for a good two months before it got down to naked time. I had only known him for a few weeks previous to our relationship. However, my fiance' and I had been friends for two years before we acknowledged that we'd like to carry things further. The time frame then was closer to the 12-24 hour range.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

At the risk of sounding essentialist: I'm not a man having sex with another man. I'm far more likely to draw things out (even with my ex husband - with whom I practically fell in love at first sight - actual, you know...penetrative sex waited until two months had passed. Okay, so we lived in separate countries, but we *met* in the same country...

Meanwhile, when I surveyed my male friends about this issue (especially my gay male friends) all of them - even the most romantic/sensitive/etc - said in general, given their druthers, they'd go straight to the naked stage.

Of course, I might only know male sluts *g*

[reddwarfer.livejournal.com]

I had your issue. I have been with my man since I was 16 and I haven't dated as an dult.


Leila

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

yes, yes -- i clicked all the ticky boxes and didn't answer the pulldown-menu question, because here's the thing: it depends, you know? (well, you don't know, as you've said, but be with me on the use of "you know?" as a phrase. [g]) i've gone to bed with people i met only hours before, and i've gone away and thought about things, and i've talked about things for a bit -- seriously, i don't know if there's a "typical" thing i do, and how long is "reasonable" between first kiss and first sex is variable depending on a series of things which, i suspect, are themselves variable.

wow, i've been totally unhelpful, haven't i.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

i will, however, take a moment to be pleased that remus and bill (reminder to self: they are Still Not Women) don't get naked the first or even the second time they kiss. [beams]

[brynwulf]

I agree with ALOT of what I just read in comments so far, but I have my own take, because:

1) In my "active" days, I viewed sex more like a man than a woman, i.e., ummmm... well, if it felt good, do it.

2) Yes, these are guys and guys tend to rush it more than women, BUT, these are guys in a slash story, which is a whole new ballgame. We read and write it for the great gay sex, sure...but we also like the relationship aspect, which isn't much of an aspect if it's smoochy smooch then fucky fuck in the space of two pages.

3) Foreplay is HOT!

[resonant8.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes it is. I'd like to read more of it, but it's difficult to find a plausible (not contrived) reason to postpone going right to the sex. When ds_flashfiction had a necking challenge, the only way I could manage it was to have all the necking happening inside Ray's head!

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

I tend to think that anticipation is often the best foreplay. And, when written correctly in a story, can be intoxicatingly sexy.

[decarnin.livejournal.com]

Hear hear.

[norah.livejournal.com]

I can't answer this, as I am pretty atypical. I have hopped into bed within hours of meeting someone, and never bothered spending much time between the kissing and the getting busy unless it was for the logical progression bits like blowjobs and groping. But I think I'm a fairly unusal woman in that respect. But in this poll, you're asking about what's normal for MEN, right? And I think I'm fairly representative of the male "sex? HELL yeah!" attitude. But you're askign a bunch of women what's normal for a bunch of men, so I think your results are going to come out skewed.

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

I've done a little of all of it! I think the age and experience of the participants, their relationship beforehand, and any other stimuli that might lower inhibitions (alcohol, drug use, watching porn together) might speed things up. Then, yes, as Beth said above, there's the whole men usually want to move faster thing, too. The 45-minute "wham, bam, rip off your pants, Sam" thing works for me, though there is something sexy about the slow build-up over a long story, too.

[the-star-fish.livejournal.com]

I will join with a lot of other folks and say it depends. The last two times it happened, one was almost a month between first kiss and nakedness, with lots of kissing and petting and talking in between. The other was about an hour, with the kissing and the talking in between, still. Both of them I'd known for a while as friends, and both I'd known I was attracted to beforehand.

(Some of the delay in the first one was lack of appropriate venue and free time, for the record.)

[axiom_of_stripe]

well, it depends on the situation, doesn't it? sometimes there's attraction but other things to consider. sometimes you're in the middle of something else and you don't want to stop and have sex right then. sometimes it takes some groping to decide to move from "attracted" to "let's do it right now". sometimes it takes more than an hour to get to the location where you intend to have sex. ;)

[raveninthewind.livejournal.com]

It's been so long since I dated that it's hard to remember what I did! ;) (I'm like you--I married early to the only person who can mesh with my blend of personality traits.)

But because I am a cautious, controlling-of-self sort of person, I used to wait a bit. The time length depended on how well/long I had known the person, but we're talking weeks here, not several months.

I think if I were single now, I'd be more likely to seek a few regular fuck buddies on the basis of friendship, rather than doing one-nighters with strangers. I thnk I'm basically lazy and wouldn't want to spend much time hunting fresh meat. *wink* I'm also of the opinion that sex tends to be better with someone you know.

again with the "depends"

[indywind]

I too had to click all the tickyboxes and skip the pulldown menu, but I'm gonna try to be concretely informative in comments from my own experience. therefore,

I've dated women since I was 15. I've been in a serious relationship with a bi woman for about 8 years. I've started umkinda-dating men in the last year or so.
Most of my relationships, slashlike, have with people already known--friends, acquaintances with mutual friends-- when the possibility of sex presented itself. Once that was out in the open, we wasted no time getting to the naked part (I don't differentiate between, lets say 'heavy petting' and 'having intercourse' for purposes of this response; you've gotta draw a line somewhere, espcially w/ f/f sex in the equation, so I'm puttin all the stuff that feels emotionally & physically vulnerable to me in the "naked" box). Sometimes the kissing didn't happen til after, or at all, and the relationship-meta kind of talking not til much later. Also slashlike, seems typical of my relationships that one person or the other was interested some time before they had the guts or the opportunity to bring up the subject.

Re: again with the "depends"

[indywind]

But also worth mentioning--the sex that happens after 1/2 hour of talking about sports, does not a relationship make. And EVERYBODY I have ever dated/fucked/ been friends with has been really wary of the L-word.

[zoerayne]

In my experience, if there's going to be kissing, there's going to be sex. The real delay comes between the attraction and the kissing, at least in my life. Once I've worked up the courage to kiss someone...hey, I'm commited to the whole shebang. As it were. *g*