Comments on LJ events you're already bored with

[resonant]

1. Love memes (like the one going on at queenofthorns right now) are much easier these days now that LJ introduced its little thumbtack icon! You can track the entire discussion (to see if anyone you know comments asking for love), or you can track your anonymous comment (so you can see if the person replies to it). It's very cool.

2. Some of the discussion on helenish's Take Clothes Off As Directed seems to be implying that it's a brand-new (and unfair) thing to comment on/criticize a piece of literature by writing another piece of literature in response to it.

But this sort of conversation between two literary works is at least as old as when Christopher Marlowe wrote The Passionate Shepherd to His Love ("Come live with me and be my love/And we will all the pleasures prove") and Sir Walter Raleigh replied with The Nymph's Reply to the Shepherd ("If all the world and love were young/And truth on every shepherd's tongue ...").

Comments

[september1967.livejournal.com]

I guess plagiarism is harder to prove this way. Oh well.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

Now you're mixing your metaphors here. There's a difference between not asking permission and not attributing.

Helen attributed so it's not plagiarism. And since we don't ask permission to use the SGA characters/universe in the first place, I have a hard time finding it in me (beyond maybe a kneejerk reactionary moment, and even then, not so much) to get angry at someone doing to me, what I do to others in this vast gray area of fanfiction.

[september1967.livejournal.com]

I wasn't actually referring to Helen in this instance but a future possible instance in which there was a case of plagiarism. But as you say such things are a vast gray area of fanfiction, I'm sure that will be thoroughly removed soon.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

I just used helen as the current example, I wasn't really implying that you were refering to her directly.

I think that fandom is pretty good about bringing up possible plagiarism infractions itself. You often don't see them get huge (noteable exceptions to the contrary) because they're handled behind closed doors.

Then again I'm not sure if I would have called it plagiarism if Helen hadn't directly attributed Xanthe as there is something to be said for common knowledge and/or ideas too generic to be specific. The concept of a BDSM verse may have only been done once to much acclaim/knowledge in this fandom, but it's not the first time its ever been done in fandom as a whole. It's not a new idea or concept. Sometimes I forget to disclaim my SGA fic, but no one is seriously going to beleive that I came up with Sheppard and McKay and the Stargate. I'm not even sure how often "may the force be with you" is properly attributed in public works because of its common knowledge value.

As for correcting the gray area? I'm not sure it ever will be strictly defined. For one, there's enough people out there on 'the other side' who beleive fans and fanworks have a lot to offer their product and for another I kind of think of it like underage drinking. It's always gonna happen, no matter the rules.

[september1967.livejournal.com]

Just think of the joy of this happening in the professional writing establishments. Maybe that's the wave of the future?

I certainly would have been much happier if Xanthe's stories weren't mentioned at all.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

*blinks* You just switched sides on me.

Because before it looked like you were worried that this sort of thing could lead to non attribution. And now you'd have prefered it not be attributed. Are you agreeing with my common knowledge point?

What if Helen had said "This was inspired by Xanthe"? Would you still infer the malicious feeling?

[september1967.livejournal.com]

If attributing it has caused this much problem, maybe without might have been better. And the malicious feeling came from after reading the comments and reacting to some of the responses. Not from the story itself, though I was concerned that others might try and connect D/s with abuse.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

It's a fair point, but I really don't know if you could have predicted the sort of response attributing vs not attributing could have provoked before the fact.

And yeah, some of the maliciousness in the comments puts me off too, but I can't really blame Helen for that. However (and you've had this discussion above so feel free to not reply I just wanted to add my own opinion) while I think you should always be aware of who can read your opinion when expressing it and I PERSONALLY feel if you're going to express negative things about something you should:

1. Avoid denegrating one thing to elevate another (e.g. This was SO much better than that) it's not really a compliment so much as a put down.

2. Probably try and make it constructive.

that being said, I'm not going to stop anyone from expressing themselves, though if they did it in my journal, I'd probably attempt a polite form of crowd control. As for expressing criticism in general, I'm for it. I don't care where it happens. I prefer seeing a well rounded conversation (This I liked, but not this) but I am fully aware that once you get past the likes, the conversation about the dislikes it probably going to become detailed and long and possibly vehement. That doesn't mean that they hated it more than liked it, just that things that people dislike are liable to get more discussion.

[september1967.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that, it is the most fair and reasoned comment to some of my more emotional reactions. And yes I was emotional about a story that I thought was being treated to a free for all in the comments.

[amireal.livejournal.com]

And I don't think "this" will happen in professional establishments, though I'm not really sure what "this" you're referring to.

I think that in certain environments all things will be attributed to the highest standard (academic) but not all environments are equally stringent. Quoting one of the most often quoted lines in copywritten history (exaggeration maybe) and not attributing isn't a huge offense if you're reasonably sure no one is going to think you came up with it. That's not to say that on a purely technical level not attributing isn't plagiarism, but there is something to be said for common knowledge.